But then he kinda went a little lame, felt like something high and maybe muscular in his often wonky hind end. But didn't feel like his "normal" wonky that improves with strength. Idk. It's Charlie, and he's often kinda a hot mess in the physical department. Sigh.
if all else fails, at least charlie has magnificent hair |
maybe he needs an emotional support therapy pupper lol |
tho of course there's always plenty of riley dog to go around! |
And he would be in a familiar place, one in which he's previously shown some of that resistance to being driven forward out of the start gate. But by doing BN, I'd be feeling pretty confident in my ability to kick him up and forward (zero tolerance!) without really needing to think much about the actual jumps.
bc yea riley's always there with the moral support lol |
So I opted to do a quick solo jump school the night before the show to serve as my litmus test for whether we should even bother. A couple jumps in, and.... Yea. A decision was made. We'll go to a show some other day. Bc we have some important work to do before then. Sigh.
bc it turns out, sometimes this brontosaurus has feeeeeeeelingsssss |
Charlie obviously doesn't mind the time off, and actually for the first time ever didn't find some new and interesting way to injure or maim himself despite days in a row of neglect. Maybe he's growing up?? Lol....
lol... also, in case you were wondering what our jumps at plantation must have looked like, just imagine this, over and over and over again |
He was actually the most willingly forward and relaxed in his flatwork that he's been lately. The zero tolerance approach is paying off and he's kinda figuring out that it's easiest for everybody if he just gets to work instead of fussing around. Trainer P still wasn't super satisfied with it tho, and encouraged me to keep changing it up on him and demanding his attention.
look, here's another variation!! |
She had ground poles on takeoff and landing, and in between jumps in a line. Poles errywhere!
pep talks with trainer P are always helpful tho. dis y i <3 lessons |
He was grumpy about being asked for more forward, distracted by his grumpiness, then surprised by the placing pole and subsequently a disorganized mess over the jumps themselves. For my part, I worked really hard to not get baited into his grumpiness. When he's snarky like that as we approach a jump, my subconscious habit is to soften a little bit so that I don't distract him from the fence and cause the awkward jump.
let's never forget tho: gosh i freakin adore this horse tho |
So what I'm doing now is basically shortening the progression of aids in asking for forward. Normally in training a horse, you would think of the progression of aids as starting with the softest, lightest possible ask and gradually increasing the intensity of that ask (think: the spectrum from asking to demanding) until the desired response is finally achieved.
Conceptually, if you're consistent enough, the heavier asks fall away because you attain the desired response earlier and earlier in the progression - eventually with the lightest possible ask.
and i'm pretty sure he *does* actually like the job i've offered him |
So..... that's cool big guy. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I can adapt to work with you there. I'll still begin as always with that lightest possible ask - delivering an aid that I am confident that Charlie's prepared for and understands. And if he tunes out, gives me the finger, or otherwise just... doesn't? Well. There's no more progression. We skip immediately to the "That Was A Poor Choice, Charlie" aid delivery system.
Aaaaand he goes. Sometimes with attitude. Sometimes begrudgingly. But, increasingly, he's just going. And then he starts making better life choices the next time I ask softly.
sometimes it just takes a little extra convincing to get him clicked into gear |
He'd be presented to the jump. Understand that there is a jump there. See the placing pole. All things he's schooled at and knows well. But he'd kinda just fart along, get distracted, not really feel like it, but then reach the placing pole and immediately realize the error of his ways when he'd kinda fumble and crash through awkwardly.
but once he's there??? |
It's honestly like a switch goes off with him too. Like once he gets his head in the game and starts going forward to the jumps, everything changes. He's happier, his ears are pricked, he's pulling forward in front of my leg, and we don't get that "dead" feeling at the base of the jump - that feeling of uncertainty about what the fuck is about to actually happen. Bc trust me, that feeling reeeeeally really sucks.
he's freakin THERE. |
And after a couple disastrous jumps (pictured earlier lol), Charlie got the point and started working more with me. It helped too that we finally raised the jumps up a bit, esp for our final course that was all set around a soft ~T height.
THIS is my horse. like sure, he's about to leave a stride out like his goofy gangsta self, but you gotta love that enthusiasm, right?? |
Once the jumps go up, he gets more interested. Starts looking at the fence. Starts getting that feeling where he's drawn toward the fence - measuring it up, adjusting his stride all by himself, preparing himself for the effort. Which obviously is an awesome feeling, and coincidentally MUCH easier to ride haha, since he ends up doing the work himself.
i prefer this picture of him dragging me over a fence any day of the week, instead of those earlier shots of him kinda just barely climbing the jumps |
but look! even after being all gung ho and taking a 30' distance in one stride, he still balanced up all clever and shit to do this 18' one stride too! |
But I wasn't going to complain bc that feeling was freakin amazing! It's honestly been weeks and weeks and weeks since Charlie's dragged me to a jump like that, and even tho it was kinda awkward, it was like this refreshing feeling of "Phew, THIS is my horse! THIS is the feeling we've been missing!!"
that placing rail caused us a lot of grief earlier in the ride, ugh |
And? While the turn was hectic as shit with me basically manhandling Charlie around, the horse proved that, yes, in fact, he's learned something from this ride: he balanced, adjusted his stride, came back to me but stayed in front of my leg, jumped the very short one stride beautifully, then made another hairpin turn to come back up center line to jump the above oxer with placing pole.
And he did it perfectly. Kept his balance. Agreed with me about pace. But maintained that forward pulling feeling (but without being fast or flat!) in front of my leg.
he figured it out tho <3 |
video has some of the gymnastic warm up exercises, plus the final course
Trainer P and I talked at length about this whole process. She says Charlie reminds her a lot of one of her big horses, who was legitimately not fun to ride for the first year or two bc every day was that same battle, that same slog of insisting that the horse does, in fact, have a job.
And it can be a real drag to not ever let that guard down in schooling. I don't like feeling like a slave driver. I don't like feeling like I'm constantly picking fights with my horse instead of slipping effortlessly into some fantasy land sense of harmony. It's much easier to be tricked into complacency, to gradually and without realizing, be drawn into accepting less and less from the horse, and needing more and more effort from the rider.
But. Ya know. With horses, the proof is in the pudding. And Charlie showed me in this lesson that when I'm consistent enough in my own riding and expectations of him, all the distractions and grumpiness melt away into the horse I know Charlie can be: FUN and EASY. Not to mention he himself seems to enjoy this outcome much more, too. He looks like he's having fun by the end of the ride, despite the bumpy beginning.
So I guess that's just how it is. The horse can be fun to ride, and can have fun being ridden. But there aren't any shortcuts in getting there. Wherever "there" is....
Do you ever feel like you're having the same rides again and again with your horse? Dealing with the same issues ride after ride? How have you dealt with that? Or maybe you've had some similar sort of breakthrough moment where the horse finally "gets" it?
First of all, thanks for the update. I was worried about Charlie!
ReplyDeleteSecond, yes- I have felt that I have had the same ride/issues over and over until I was ready to scream. Or drink. Some days both seemed appropriate.
I too have adopted the zero tolerance attitude Andrew it’s working like a charm. Yesterday I had sand delivered for the ring. Carmen started to be all “what is that, I think I’m scared”. Instead of babying her I gave a kick and said ‘it’s sand, keep going’ and she did. Charlie looks good in the video. He’s starting to take responsibility for his own feet rather than let you do all the work. Maybe he’s growing up. 😀
screaming and drinking has definitely been my approach as well, lol. gotta do what you gotta do, right?? and yea i can only hope that eventually it'll take less convincing to keep charlie feeling responsibility for his own feet!! maybe one day!
DeleteAhhh yes the first... several years of Dino were exactly like this! There was so much pony beating. So much. But a combination of making things more fun and interesting for him and Zero Tolerance about the go button helped transform him into a really, REALLY fun little guy. It's so encouraging to see that Charlie is getting there and that you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel of dinosaur shenanigans!
ReplyDeleteomg the pony beatings.... i keep trying to tell charlie that the beatings will continue until morale improves, but he just hasn't gotten the message yet!! hopefully soon tho!
DeleteMy gelding that I ended up rehoming was a lot like Charlie. Very talented, but just "didn't wanna". And I wasn't strong enough to make him. I'm so glad you've figured out a system that's working for Charlie.
ReplyDeleteyea it's hard for sure when they kinda just figure out that if they don't wanna, maybe they don't haveta. i'm still seriously kicking myself for getting so complacent leading up to plantation that charlie learned that quitting was an option. but. ya know. he IS a good boy, and he DOES like doing this stuff. so we just keep pushing...
DeleteBoy when Charlie's "on" he's so incredible looking! He just looks SO powerful and I don't doubt those are the moments you live for - and I hope with the right work put in you'll find them more and more often!
ReplyDeleteWhen I'm presented with the same issue again and again, I have to constantly remind myself to keep calm and patient. For me, so much of the stall with "moving forward" is in my own head/reactions and when I can fix myself, things always go well. Once I can guarantee my reactions aren't shaping theirs, I break things down to the simplest of simple and build back up. For my horses at least, the momentary step back and building back up usually helps them get back on board with whatever I've asked.
It reminds me of complicated math classes or organic chemistry when I'd get lost part way through an explanation of an equation or process - when a teacher would rewind and walk me through it again checking my understanding through each piece leading up to the part that gave me trouble, I was almost always able to understand and move forward.
oh man, i definitely live for those moments. when he's got that "pulling" feeling, taking me to a jump, he honestly feels like he could jump the moon. that's kinda why it was so shocking when that feeling suddenly fled the coop... like you say tho, patience in working through it is key. keep calm and kick on, right?
DeleteOh man, I have 0 advice for ya in this department -- you know how my story with the horse who didn't want to go forward ended. I'm cheering for you and Charlie tho!
ReplyDeleteAnd also, he def doesn't care about the small jumps. It's too bad he's so athletic that baby jumps don't interest him, LOL
lol yea there are certainly worse problems to have than a horse who prefers a larger jump! just so long as he keeps paying attention and actually, ya know, GOES to the fence, i'm fine with it!
DeleteI feel like I've been having the same conversation with Candy every day for the last year and a half, lol. It's exhausting!
ReplyDeleteI always felt like I was having the same dressage ride on Moe for years, but I think that was because I used to be a pretty terrible dressage rider. I'm not amazing now or anything, but I'm better than I used to be and I think being knowledgeable enough to use my aids clearly and correctly is what made the difference. It seemed like one day, Moe just *got* it, and it was amazing!
aw i love Moe <3 and yea that's definitely a biggie here too, making sure that i'm doing my part to be as clear and correct as possible, and ensure that charlie is prepared for everything i ask of him. bc i don't want to like, trick him or catch him out or punish him for being confused. luckily at this point he's pretty reasonably schooled and not actually all that green any more. he knows his job, knows his expectations. just maybe isn't so sure WHY haha
DeleteOh man, I'm so feeling this right now as I start doing serious dressage rides with Opie again. He would just rather NOT, thanks. Not move forward, Not stay forward, Not use himself, Not do sharp transitions. Like you said, I hate being the slave driver, but really, bro. It's your job and I really am not asking anything you don't know how to do. Sad, sad story for poor abused ponies.
ReplyDeleteoh how they suffer!! i keep trying to channel janet foy's witticisms from when i audited her ages ago: "the horse can be your little lame for 23hrs a day, but for one hour he must be your love slave!" lol
DeleteAll the same feelings. P is so sensitive that I would practically ride on eggshells if he were in one of his moods. Which didn't do anything except teach him that he dictates the ride.
ReplyDeleteI've started riding with zero tolerance as well, and our fights are much fewer and far between, and shorter when they do surface. It's a great feeling.
Placing poles weird me out though. Give me a Training height jump, fine. Put a placing pole in front of it? Mental meltdown.
C looks great! Glad you guys are getting your mojo back, we all go through it.
lol yea placing poles are definitely not my favorite either. like, theoretically i understand that they're supposed to help, and that i should basically just ignore them and let the horse do his thing.... but... ya know... sometimes they're just overwhelming lol. luckily charlie doesn't seem to care much (or, uh, maybe it would be better if he cared *more*!)
DeleteI had constant chill the f out rides for the first few years with Phantom. So frustrating!
ReplyDeleteugh yea, that's kinda what it was like riding that little mare velvet last weekend. like, why can't you just be calm tho????
DeleteNot that you wrote this or me...but damn I needed to read a post like this today!! First, I'm glad Charlie is sound and things are moving forward with you getting your love back. You both look very happy by the end of the lesson. Zero Tolerance is a thing I am learning and it took me getting pissed off to put it into practice. I need to learn that I can still be fair to the horse while being firm and honestly its a lot like my kiddo...firm b boundaries and clear consequences may sound mean at first but make for a much happier household in the long run.
ReplyDeleteyup, that's so true. sometimes i wish it didn't take a big setback or problem to make me more focused.... but unfortunately sometimes i really do just need a serious kick in the pants... for me, the part that i always work really really hard to remember is that it ISN'T personal. like, it can feel personal bc i pour so much of myself into horses and riding. but charlie doesn't know that - he's not trying to be bad. he's just testing the limits, and it's up to me to give him those boundaries like you say, and help him operate successfully within them.
DeleteIt looks like what you've been doing has been working well for you two tho. He certainly was much more like his old self towards the end! The zero tolerance is hard because you don't WANT to do that every time - just as you said - but in the end I definitely agree that it teaches the horse well and the relationship improves because of it. I think you're doing great tho, and Charlie is looking so fit and so fine <3
ReplyDeleteyea i mean the reality is that very few horses would choose on their own to "go to the gym," as it were, and put in all this work and practice. like, sure many enjoy the act of galloping around and jumping things but sometimes the schooling is.... less fun for them. i get it. but. ya know. it's kiiiiinda important. so we work through it!
DeleteSometimes training is a real slog with that nitty shit but its sooooo important (as you know). "Riding the ugly" You guys sure are jumping nice and big! :D Glad you got that awesome feeling back!
ReplyDeleteha thanks! it's crazy with charlie bc my worries about fence size or whatever have completely melted away. it's so easy for him, and he's literally so much easier (omg) to ride to a larger fence than a small fence now that he actually knows what he's doing... so that helps! but yea man. we really sure do spend a lot of time riding that ugly...
DeleteI'm with you 100%! Gavin isn't the most fun of horses to ride. He is almost always a grump before a ride, and almost always requires to be made to be forward for the first 15 minutes, after which he's just golden. To be fully honest, he's always been this way and I've had him for 8 years. I try not to take it personally - he pulls the same shit on everyone - but it's not the most fun thing to endure every ride. HOWEVER (and I think you experienced this side as well) - once they figure out that it's easier to work with you than against you, it is just a freaking joy. I'm glad to hear he's feeling good! You guys look great!
ReplyDeleteugh yea i've definitely ridden those horses that you sorta have to get through that hump at the beginning of every ride. definitely annoying. that's just how some of them are tho. with charlie i'm trying to convince him that it has to happen tho. bc right now it's not really just a "beginning of the ride" thing - it's every time we start up after a break, or whenever he thinks he should be done. or like and plantation when he just straight up didn't wanna, and quit on me on the cross country course. so we've really got to get this figured out if he's gonna have any chance at being successful in his job lol!
DeleteCharlie looks GREAT! I am so happy to read this post and see the videos!! <3 I think all horses plateau in their training or just start to suddenly realize, oh wait, this is hard and nah thanks. It sounds like you are finding a good balance for him with the zero tolerance (that is where I am now with Ellie as she is much more grown up than she was a few months ago and she's like SRSLY MOM (eye roll) like a teenage girl lol) and with using the placing poles to make him think more about the smaller jumps instead of tuning them out. You've got this!!!
ReplyDeleteyea that's definitely it - charlie's sorta realized that while maybe it's kinda fun most of the time, he maybe doesn't always feel like it when i do too. and like, we've had so much inconsistency with past injuries and whatnot that maybe he got used to the occasional time off and was surprised when that hadn't happened recently? idk. but yea, it's definitely funny how once they grow up a bit and feel like the finally know all the answers, they might start thinking like "eh but maybe i know better than my rider!"
DeleteThe first two or three years with Bridget were all about just reinforcing the rules and not accepting less, over and over, every time we upped the difficulty or she got bored. "Yes, you are here to work. Yes, it's easiest to just do the work" Feeling like you're playing bad cop most days isn't much fun, but it really does pay off. You are both looking fantastic!
ReplyDeletethanks! and agreed, playing bad cop is DEFINITELY not my favorite. i just keep hoping that charlie figures it out asap. he's a clever horse and will quickly learn the rules if i'm consistent enough. the trouble is that the moment i give an inch, he knows that inch is always there for the taking....
DeletePerhaps there's something about being a 9-year-old "Murray" right now, because mine has been getting the EXACT same lesson. This week I will have my first jump lesson since we started reprogramming the forward aid, and I'm excited to see how it works out!
ReplyDeletelol these 9yos like to think they know everything, don't they?!? but like, c'mon, dammit! it shouldn't be such a challenge to get these OTTBs just going forward! hopefully your jump lesson shows the value of all your recent work!
DeleteHe looks wonderful in the video, I think!
ReplyDeleteMy trainer has helped me with a very similar situation because B is also a fan of the "let's not move today" game, and I can be a bit too lenient with my expectations and it doesn't do either of us any favours.
She describes it as the plus 1 scenario.
If B and I are both constantly increasing our intensity by plus 1 (him into not moving and me into moving) we will stay there forever slowly fighting with each other.
Ask for the plus 1 on my end and if he tries to plus one me I give him a plus seven haha.
lol i love the "plus 1" vs "plus 7" analogy - that's a great way to describe it, and basically exactly what i'm trying to do in my whole "skipping the progression" thing. bc yea we've just got this slow escalation of dullness and stubbornness lol. so my plan is to basically catch charlie by surprise and remind him that, actually, it's of critical importance that he clues in to me promptly, thanksverymuch!
DeleteHero's brain would fall out with all those placing poles! Glad that you guys were back in the groove by the end of the lesson!
ReplyDeletelol yea it was certainly a lot of ground poles! luckily charlie's got a fair amount of experience with grids and gymnastics, so that really helps!
DeleteDid everyone in the blogosphere lose forward in their horses? It seems like a lot of us are struggling with the GO FORTH GOOD PONY SIR/MADAM.
ReplyDeleteBlah. I can say 100% I feel ya and I am marching to the beat of the same damn drum at the moment. I too neglected the horse for the better part of a week bc part of me just didn't wanna deal with it yet, haha. It's frustrating and hard, and it hits ya right in the gut bc forward is such a basic concept it feels silly we skirted over it (bc lord knows I did!).
Remember this tho; the wheel never stops turning and we will always continue to go onwards and upwards!
While my horse had more gymnastic ways of evading work (i.e. spook/spin/leap/bolt), the answer to it is the same: ride more effectively. sigh. But damn Charlie looks amazing over those jumps and undeniably loving it!
ReplyDeleteSo happy to read (and watch) this! I'm sure I'll be encountering the forward issue frequently as I get back into the swing of things haha. But man, once Charlie got locked on, he looked awesome!
ReplyDeleteRT ^^ everyone losing forward 'cause uh, we're on that train too.
ReplyDeleteMostly how did NOBODY comment on the fact that you did a 30' line in ONE STRIDE? WTF Charlie. Thank god I didn't ride that, I would have been eating dirt.